¶ 1 In this dependency and neglect case, we review a court of appeals opinion affirming the termination of the father's parental rights and reversing the termination of the mother's parental rights on the grounds that the trial court erred by allowing foster parent intervenors to participate fully in the termination hearing. People in Interest of A.M., No. 10CA522, slip op. at 17, ___ P.3d ___, ___, 2010 WL 5621076 (Colo.App. Dec. 23, 2010) (selected for official publication). The court of appeals construed section 19-3-507, C.R.S. (2012), of the Children's Code and held that foster parent intervenors possess only a limited right of participation at the termination hearing. The court also held that the parents' due process rights were violated by the full participation of the intervenors in the termination hearing. With respect to the rights of the mother, it held that the full participation of the foster parents violated her constitutional rights warranting reversal. With respect to the father, the court held that the constitutional error was harmless beyond a reasonable doubt. We construe section 19-3-507(5)(a) and hold that foster parents who meet the required statutory criteria to intervene may participate fully in the termination hearing without limitation. We also hold that parents' due process rights are not impacted by the full participation of foster parents in the termination hearing.
¶ 2 Hence, we reverse the judgment of the court of appeals with respect to mother, remand to that court for consideration of the remaining issue on appeal, and affirm as to the termination of the father's right.
¶ 3 A.C. (mother) and N.M. (father), on three occasions in the span of three months, took their infant son, A.M., to the emergency room for treatment of a number of unexplained injuries including a lacerated tongue, a bruised cheek, and a fractured elbow. As a result, the Montezuma County Department of Social Services (the "Department") investigated the nature of the injuries. After x-rays revealed numerous other fractures to A.M.'s ribs, tibia, and cheek bone, the Department filed a petition in dependency and neglect. The court granted the Department temporary custody of A.M., and the Department placed A.M. in foster care with L.H. and R.H. (the foster parents). Based on admissions by the parents, the trial court found A.M. dependent and neglected as to both parents on the specific ground that A.M.'s environment was injurious to his welfare and entered the adjudicatory order. See § 19-3-102(1), C.R.S. (2012) ("A child is neglected and dependent if .... [t]he child's environment is injurious to his or her welfare."). The adjudicatory order allowed the court to enter orders regarding the child and his parents. As a result, the trial court ordered the parents to participate in treatment plans intended to help the parents rehabilitate and the family reunify.
¶ 4 After A.M. had been in the care of the foster parents for approximately fifteen months,
¶ 5 Three months after the foster parents intervened and eighteen months after the Department removed A.M. from the parents' care, the guardian ad litem filed a motion to terminate the parental rights of A.C. and
¶ 6 The parents appealed the order terminating their parental rights on the grounds that the trial court erred by permitting the foster parents to intervene and to participate fully in the termination hearing. Again citing to A.W.R., the parents asserted that section 19-3-507(5)(a) only affords foster parents the limited right to provide information about a child in their care at a termination hearing. The court of appeals found that the trial court erred when it allowed the foster parents to participate fully in the termination hearing and reversed as to A.C., the mother, but affirmed as to N.M., the father. A.M., No. 10CA522, slip op. at 44-45, ___ P.3d at ___ - ___.
¶ 7 To analyze whether the foster parents' full participation in the termination hearing constituted error, the court of appeals interpreted the statute authorizing foster parent participation, section 19-3-507(5)(a). Id. at 27-28, ___ P.3d at ___ - ___. That court determined the statute was ambiguous. Id. at 15-17, ___ P.3d at ___ - ___. It then relied on the court of appeals case, A.W.R., and various canons of statutory construction to hold that subsection (5)(a) restricted the foster parents' participation after being granted the right to intervene. Id. at 12-25, ___ P.3d at ___ - ___. The court concluded that foster parents who intervene have no statutory right to participate to the same extent as the other parties at a termination hearing, and because the trial court's order permitted the foster parents to participate fully, the parents' constitutional right to due process was violated. See id. at 27-28, 38-41, ___ P.3d at ___ - ___, ___ - ___. The court of appeals then attempted to resolve whether the error affected the order terminating the parents' rights as to their child. See id. at 41-45, ___ P.3d at ___ - ___. Applying a constitutional harmless error analysis to the trial court's decision to allow the foster parents to participate fully, the court held that the advocacy by the foster parents "substantially influence[d]" the trial court's decision to terminate the mother's parental rights by "unduly emphasiz[ing] the testimony of the [guardian ad litem]'s witnesses" and by "unduly cast[ing] doubt on the credibility of the witnesses presented by [the Department] and mother." Id. at 44-45, ___ P.3d at ___ - ___. Thus, the court of appeals concluded that such error was not harmless beyond a reasonable doubt and reversed the trial court's order terminating A.C.'s parental rights. Id. at 45, ___ P.3d at ___. With respect to N.M.'s rights, the court of appeals concluded that the intervention, although an error of constitutional magnitude, was harmless beyond a reasonable doubt due to the "strong" evidence supporting termination and affirmed the termination of his parental rights. Id. at 44, ___ P.3d at ___. We granted certiorari and now reverse the reinstatement of the mother's parental rights and affirm the termination of the father's rights.
¶ 8 We review de novo the court of appeals' construction of a statute. Boulder Cnty. Bd. of Comm'rs v. HealthSouth Corp., 246 P.3d 948, 951 (Colo.2011). Our primary task in construing statutes is to ascertain and give effect to the intent of the General Assembly. In re B.B.O., 2012 CO 40, ¶ 6, 277 P.3d 818, 820. We first look to the language of the statute, giving effect to the plain and ordinary meaning of words and phrases selected by the General Assembly. Ceja v. Lemire, 154 P.3d 1064, 1066 (Colo. 2007). If statutory language is unambiguous, we apply it as written without resorting to other rules of statutory construction. Holcomb v. Jan - Pro Cleaning Sys. of S. Colo., 172 P.3d 888, 890 (Colo.2007). Statutory language is ambiguous when it is susceptible to multiple valid interpretations. State v. Nieto, 993 P.2d 493, 500-01 (Colo.2000). We favor interpretations that produce a harmonious reading of the statutory scheme and eschew constructions that create inconsistency. People v. Dist. Ct., 713 P.2d 918, 921 (Colo.1986). Only if the statute is susceptible to multiple competing interpretations may we then resort to "the statute's legislative history, the state of the law prior to the legislative enactment, the problem addressed by the legislation, and the statutory remedy created to cure the problem." See Rowe v. People, 856 P.2d 486, 489 (Colo.1993).
¶ 9 We begin by reviewing the statutory procedures surrounding an action in dependency and neglect as set forth in the Children's Code. Next, we construe the plain language of section 19-3-507(5)(a). Then, we clarify the meaning of the prior case law interpreting that section. Finally, we consider the argument that allowing foster parent intervenors to participate fully in the termination of parental rights hearing violates parents' due process rights.
¶ 10 To place this appeal in context, we start with a brief review of the statutory procedures in a dependency and neglect proceeding. Title 19, the Children's Code, addresses issues pertinent to children in Colorado who are involved in delinquency, dependency and neglect, parentage, or relinquishment and adoption. The overriding purpose of the Children's Code is to protect the welfare and safety of children in Colorado by providing procedures through which their best interests can be ascertained and served. See L.G. v. People, 890 P.2d 647, 654 (Colo.1995). Article three, title 19, is the statutory framework for dependency and neglect proceedings.
¶ 11 A dependency and neglect proceeding commences when a local county department of human services or a local law enforcement agency is made aware of suspected child abuse or neglect. The local department of human services, after taking immediate steps to protect the child or children, must give notice to a juvenile court of competent jurisdiction with respect to the child. § 19-3-312(1), C.R.S. (2012). Upon receiving notice of the alleged abuse or neglect, the juvenile court may authorize the filing of a petition in dependency and neglect. Id.
¶ 12 A petition in dependency and neglect is filed by the People of the State of Colorado. § 19-3-502, C.R.S. (2012). The State is the exclusive party entitled to bring an action in dependency and neglect. McCall v. Dist. Ct., 651 P.2d 392, 394 (Colo. 1982). The court must notify and advise the parents in open court that, as respondents to the petition, they are entitled to certain rights. § 19-3-503, C.R.S. (2012). The court informs the parents of their right to counsel, their right to contest the allegations made in the petition, and their right to request trial by jury or by the court.
¶ 13 If the court sustains the petition and adjudicates the child dependent and neglected, then it will convene a dispositional hearing. § 19-3-508, C.R.S. (2012). The court must hold the dispositional hearing within thirty days of the adjudication if the child is under six years of age, or forty-five days if the child is over six years of age. Id. At the dispositional hearing, the court must order a treatment plan. § 19-3-507.
¶ 14 The purpose of the treatment plan is to provide services to the family, to prevent unnecessary out-of-home placement of the child, and to facilitate reunification of the child and family.
¶ 15 With this procedural framework in mind, we now turn to the statutory authority for foster parents to participate in this process. Part five of article three of the Children's Code, § 19-3-500.2, et seq., C.R.S. (2012), governs, among other things, the mechanism for adjudicating a child dependent and neglected and the procedures following adjudication. Section 19-3-507 is titled "Dispositional Hearing" and governs proceedings immediately following the adjudication of a minor as dependent and neglected. The subsection in dispute is 19-3-507(5)(a), which provides for intervention by certain individuals who, (1) have the child in their care for more than three months; and (2) have knowledge or information concerning the care and protection of the child:
Whether foster parents may intervene turns on the length of time the child has been in their care and their abilities to inform the court about the "care and protection of the child." The statute defines the criteria for intervention. It is silent as to the extent of foster parents' rights upon intervention.
¶ 17 We next turn to the question of whether intervention by a foster parent entitles the foster parent to the full panoply of rights that the existing parties enjoy. The designation "intervenor" signifies how a party came to be involved in a case. By itself, the term does not restrict participation. Generally, courts grant intervenors the same rights as all other parties. See, e.g., United States v. City of Hialeah, 899 F.Supp. 603, 611 (S.D.Fla.1994), aff'd, 140 F.3d 968 (11th Cir.1998); In re Oceana Int'l, Inc., 49 F.R.D. 329, 333 (S.D.N.Y.1969); Hartley Pen Co. v. Lindy Pen Co., 16 F.R.D. 141, 153 (S.D.Cal.1954); see also Roosevelt v. Beau Monde Co., 152 Colo. 567, 577, 384 P.2d 96, 101 (1963) (holding that Colorado's intervention rule, C.R.C.P. 24, is identical to the corresponding federal rule). As to this specific statute, subsection (5)(a) does not contain any explicit limit to the rights of intervenors, nor does it limit the substance of intervenor participation. Subsection (5)(a) contains no temporal limits on intervenor participation other than the requirement that intervention occur after adjudication has occurred. The legislature could have restricted the timing, duration, and substance of foster parents' intervention, but it did not. See Turbyne v. People, 151 P.3d 563, 567 (Colo.2007) ("When construing a statute,.... [w]e do not add words to the statute or subtract words from it."); see also Dean v. United States, 556 U.S. 568, 572, 129 S.Ct. 1849, 173 L.Ed.2d 785 (2009) ("[W]e ordinarily resist reading words or elements into a statute that do not appear on its face." (internal quotation marks omitted)).
¶ 18 Although the statute, by its words, does not limit the right to intervene, the parents argue that placement within the section entitled "Dispositional Hearing" supports a reading of subsection (5)(a) as a temporal restriction on the full participation of foster parents to the dispositional hearing. The General Assembly uses section headings "only for the purpose of convenience, orderly arrangement, and information." § 2-5-113(4), C.R.S. (2012). It has instructed that "no implication or presumption of a legislative construction is to be drawn therefrom." Id. Accordingly, subsection (5)(a)'s placement in the "Dispositional Hearing" section does not compel us to adopt the parents' construction.
¶ 19 More significantly, the parents' construction of subsection (5)(a) creates an untenable result in expedited placement proceedings. Children under six years of age are subject to expedited placement procedures, which are intended to swiftly place the youngest — and thereby most vulnerable — children in permanent homes. See § 19-1-102(1.6). To intervene, however, foster parents must have had the child in their care for over ninety days. § 19-3-507(5)(a). In expedited placement cases, while technically possible, it is impracticable that a dispositional hearing would be held more than ninety days after a child under six is placed in foster care.
¶ 20 As a result, and because of our declination to read words into a statute that do not appear on its face, we conclude that the timing and scope of foster parent intervenors' participation is derived from the absence of words of limitation in section 19-3-507(5)(a). Foster parent intervenors are afforded the same degree of participation as all other parties, and such participation is not limited to the dispositional hearing. Foster parents who meet the required statutory criteria to intervene may participate fully in the termination hearing without limitation.
¶ 21 Despite the statute's plain language, the parents and the Department argue that foster parent participation in the termination hearing is limited by prior case law interpreting section 19-3-507(5)(a), People in Interest of A.W.R., 17 P.3d 192 (Colo.App.2000). In our view, the meaning of this case has been the subject of substantial confusion. Accordingly, we briefly review A.W.R.
¶ 22 In A.W.R., the court of appeals considered whether a foster parent was entitled to participate fully in a permanency planning hearing when, at the time of the hearing, the child had been removed from her care and returned to the mother. 17 P.3d at 195-97. That court affirmed the trial court's decision to restrict the participation of the foster parent to giving direct testimony. Id.
¶ 23 In so holding, the A.W.R. court distinguished a prior decision by the court of appeals, People in Interest of C.P., 34 Colo. App. 54, 524 P.2d 316 (1974), which held that a grandparent intervenor may participate fully in a dependency and neglect proceeding. Id. at 197. The A.W.R. court noted that in C.P. the child remained in the grandparent intervenor's care. Id. Because the foster mother in A.W.R. no longer had custody of the child, the A.W.R. court concluded that her rights upon intervention were not dictated by C.P. Id. Thus, the A.W.R. court did not follow C.P. because of the child's placement at the time of the hearing, and the court therefore limited the foster mother's participation.
¶ 24 In the instant case, the parents and the Department rely on A.W.R. for the proposition that intervenors who are foster parents have limited participation regardless of whether the child remains in their care. Contrary to this reading, the court of appeals in A.W.R. did not break from its precedent in C.P. on the basis of the intervenor's identity as a foster parent. Rather, the A.W.R. court distinguished C.P. by holding that an intervenor's rights are contingent on the intervenor retaining custody of the child.
§ 19-3-502(7) (emphasis added). Thus, the A.W.R. court did not grant any substantive right to the foster mother not already provided by section 19-3-502(7). Put another way, the A.W.R. court refused to grant the foster mother the full participation rights normally associated with intervention because the child was not in the foster parent's care at the time of the hearing. The practical effect is therefore the same as if the court had decided that the foster mother did not "have the child in [her] care for more than three months" and denied the foster mother's motion to intervene because it failed to meet the statutory criteria. See § 19-3-507(5)(a) (providing that intervention is permissible only after child has been placed in care of foster parents for more than three months). Accordingly, A.W.R. did not impose a new limitation on the rights of intervenors, but instead, merely applied the three-month placement requirement in section 19-3-507(5)(a) to a situation where a child's placement with a foster parent had expired.
¶ 26 Our reading of A.W.R. highlights another concern expressed by the court of appeals in this case: that to allow foster parents to intervene will bog down the termination hearing and frustrate the ultimate purpose of serving the best interests of the child. See A.M., No. 10CA522, slip op. at 40 n. 4, ___ P.3d at ___ n. 4. Foster parent participation, however, is not without limits. These limits go beyond the requirements to intervene found in section 19-3-507. Indeed, the presentation of evidence by any party is limited by familiar principles of evidence. The prohibition on irrelevant or needlessly cumulative evidence should ameliorate the potentially significant increase in the volume of information at the termination hearing. See C.R.E. 401, 403. Juvenile courts act as gatekeepers so that, in cases where additional parties have intervened, the termination hearing ought not become awash with unnecessary evidence or devolve into a contested custody hearing.
¶ 27 Citing this same concern over the subversion of the termination hearing, the parents, joined by the Department, argue that allowing foster parents the same rights as all other parties in a termination hearing violates parents' procedural protections under the Due Process Clause. They contend that the fairness of the termination hearing is constitutionally compromised by allowing foster parents to participate without limitation. They argue that due process requires that the court limit foster parents' participation at a termination hearing to that of a witness. The foster parents counter that due process is satisfied because, prior to terminating their parental rights, the trial court afforded the parents notice and a hearing.
¶ 28 This substantial disagreement illustrates a maxim of due process: "due process is flexible and calls for such procedural
¶ 29 The criteria for termination must be proven by clear and convincing evidence. § 19-3-604(1)(a). Parents are entitled to notice of the allegations supporting the motion to terminate, to have a hearing on the motion, and, at that hearing, to be assisted by legal counsel. § 19-3-602, C.R.S. (2012); People in Interest of V.M.R., 768 P.2d 1268, 1270 (Colo.App.1989). If indigent, parents may request counsel at the expense of the State and may employ the services of an expert witness at the state's expense. § 19-3-607, C.R.S. (2012); Lassiter, 452 U.S. at 24, 101 S.Ct. 2153. At the termination hearing, the parents have the right to cross-examine adverse parties and call their own witnesses. See People in Interest of J.E.B., 854 P.2d 1372, 1375 (Colo.App.1993). Before terminating the parent-child relationship, the trial court must consider and eliminate less drastic alternatives, see People in Interest of M.M., 726 P.2d 1108, 1122-23 (Colo.1986), and the parents must be given the opportunity to rehabilitate through participation in the treatment plan, see § 19-3-604. Finally, termination is impossible absent the preliminary determination that the child is dependent and neglected, and adjudication is contingent on strict adherence to numerous procedural safeguards. See supra Part III.A.
¶ 30 The parents have cited no authority, nor are we aware of any, in support of the notion that these procedures fail to guarantee parents fair treatment at the termination hearing. They have failed to produce any direct authority that foster parent participation will undermine these protections. Instead, the parents cite two cases, Lassiter, 452 U.S. 18, 101 S.Ct. 2153, 68 L.Ed.2d 640, and Santosky v. Kramer, 455 U.S. 745, 102 S.Ct. 1388, 71 L.Ed.2d 599 (1982), that analyzed due process rights available to parties at state juvenile proceedings under the three-factor framework in Mathews v. Eldridge, 424 U.S. 319, 96 S.Ct. 893, 47 L.Ed.2d 18 (1976). They argue that Eldridge dictates that the procedural protections of the Due Process Clause prohibit full foster parent participation in the termination hearing.
¶ 31 Eldridge provides that the "specific dictates of due process" can be understood by consideration of three factors: (1) the private interests at stake; (2) the risk of the erroneous deprivation of that interest and the probability that the procedural safeguards that have been proposed will mitigate that risk; and (3) the government's interest, including the "fiscal and administrative burdens" of implementing the proposed procedure. 424 U.S. at 335, 96 S.Ct. 893. Accordingly, the parents urge us to restrict foster parent participation in the termination hearing because (1) their interest in maintaining the parent-child relationship is paramount; (2) the cumulative effect of allowing foster parents and other intervenors to advocate alongside the guardian ad litem poses a substantial risk of erroneous terminations; and (3) the government's interest in terminating their parental rights is minimal.
¶ 32 Previously, we held that the three-factor analysis in Eldridge was an appropriate tool to assess the question of "what process is due" parties facing termination of parental rights. People in Interest of A.M.D., 648 P.2d 625, 635 (Colo.1982); see also Lassiter, 452 U.S. at 24-25, 101 S.Ct. 2153 (in juvenile cases due process must be analyzed "by first considering any relevant precedents and then by assessing the several
¶ 33 Like A.M.D., the cases cited by the parents demonstrate how the Eldridge factors apply in the context of a juvenile proceeding. In Santosky, the United States Supreme Court employed the Eldridge factors to evaluate whether due process required elevating the standard of proof at juvenile hearings. 455 U.S. at 747, 102 S.Ct. 1388. In Lassiter, the Court used the Eldridge factors to conclude that parents facing termination have the right to court-appointed counsel. 452 U.S. at 24, 101 S.Ct. 2153. As to the first Eldridge factor, Santosky and Lassiter both emphasized the significant private interests at stake when the State seeks to forever cut off the parent-child relationship. Santosky, 455 U.S. at 758-59, 102 S.Ct. 1388; Lassiter, 452 U.S. at 27, 101 S.Ct. 2153. As to the second Eldridge factor, the Court in Santosky, expressed its concern over the risk of erroneous fact finding at a juvenile hearing, 455 U.S. at 764, 102 S.Ct. 1388, and the Court in Lassiter commented on the attempts by the North Carolina legislature to "assure accurate decisions" short of providing counsel for indigent parents, 452 U.S. at 28, 101 S.Ct. 2153. Finally, in considering the third Eldridge factor, both decisions emphasized that the government's interest at a termination hearing is more than simply the cost. See Santosky, 455 U.S. at 766, 102 S.Ct. 1388; Lassiter, 452 U.S. at 27, 101 S.Ct. 2153. As stated in Lassiter, "[s]ince the State has an urgent interest in the welfare of the child, it shares the parent's interest in an accurate and just decision." 452 U.S. at 27, 101 S.Ct. 2153. Hence, these cases are in accord with our understanding of how the Eldridge factors answer "what process is due" at juvenile hearings.
¶ 34 Applying the Eldridge factors to the current case, we agree with the parents that their private interest in the continuation of the parent-child relationship is commanding. We now determine, as we did in A.M.D., that when considered alone the first Eldridge factor weighs heavily in the parents' favor.
¶ 35 Turning to the second Eldridge factor, we consider whether limiting foster parent participation will decrease the risk of an erroneous decision. By restricting the role of foster parents to that of a witness, the limitation the parents urge would restrict both the evidence foster parents may present and their method of presenting evidence. The Children's Code, however, contains many indications that foster parents often have valuable information about their foster children. For example, section 19-3-502(7) provides foster parents with the right to be heard at all hearings and reviews; section 19-3-702(1.5), C.R.S. (2012), provides that all permanency planning hearings must be open to foster parents if appropriate; and section 19-3-604(1)(c)(I)(B), provides that courts may take testimony from foster parents at the termination hearing regarding the parents' progress under their treatment plan. See also People in Interest of M.D.C.M., 34 Colo.App. 91, 94, 522 P.2d 1234, 1236 (1974). Indeed, as the immediate caregivers for the
¶ 36 Turning to the third Eldridge factor, the General Assembly has declared that "the safety and protection of children" is a matter "of statewide concern." § 19-3-100.5(1), C.R.S. (2012). The State, as parens patriae, has a "strong interest in promoting the welfare of children within its borders." E.P. v. Dist. Ct. of Garfield Cnty., 696 P.2d 254, 259 (Colo.1985). Not only does the State have a strong interest in promoting the welfare of children, but it also has a significant interest in ensuring that termination proceedings are "accurate and just." Lassiter, 452 U.S. at 27, 101 S.Ct. 2153. We have urged courts to exercise extreme caution when considering the termination of parental rights. People in Interest of E.A., 638 P.2d 278, 285 (Colo.1981). That caution is best exercised by giving due consideration to all relevant, non-cumulative evidence — whatever the source. Because of its role in securing both the child's welfare and a just outcome at the juvenile proceeding, the government's interests are substantial.
¶ 37 On balance, while the parents' interest to maintain the parent-child relationship is significant, the limitation they suggest would increase the risk of an erroneous decision at the termination hearing, and the government's interest to maintain a fair proceeding and protect the long-term welfare of children is substantial. Hence, we conclude that the Eldridge factors do not support the position that due process requires limits on foster parent participation at the termination hearing.
¶ 38 Because the core concern of due process is fundamental fairness, all the procedures employed at the termination hearing must be examined to determine whether they comport with due process. In the context of the protections offered by the Children's Code, our precedent, and the precedent of the United States Supreme Court, we conclude that full participation by foster parent intervenors does not undermine the fundamental fairness of the termination hearing. Accordingly, we hold that parents' due process rights are not impacted by the full participation of foster parents in the termination hearing.
¶ 39 We now turn to the intervention and participation by the foster parents, L.H. and R.H., in the termination hearing in this case. It was undisputed that A.M. was in the care of the L.H. and R.H. for greater than three months and that the foster parents claimed to have knowledge and information "concerning the care and protection of the child." Under section 19-3-507(5)(a), no further findings were required to trigger their right to intervene after adjudication. The trial court correctly allowed the foster parents to intervene and did not err in affording the foster parents full party status at the termination hearing. As intervenors, the foster parents were properly permitted to make opening statements, cross-examine witnesses,
¶ 40 We hold that foster parents who meet the required statutory criteria to intervene may participate fully in the termination hearing without limitation. In addition, we hold that parents' due process rights are not impacted by the full participation of foster parents in the termination hearing. We therefore reverse the judgment of the court of appeals with respect to A.C., the mother, and remand to that court for consideration of the remaining issue on appeal. We affirm the court of appeals with respect to the termination of the parental rights of N.M., the father, and remand the case to that court with directions to return it to the trial court for proceedings consistent with this opinion.